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User talk:Roygbiv666
action=edit&section=new}} Click here to leave me a message. Images as redirects! Thought you'd want to know about this. :) --Nathan (Peteparker) (Earth-1218) (talk • • ) 00:39, 16 July 2008 (UTC) Welcome Template Updated it, so you don't have to sign after it anymore, and you can put in a little blurb about what the newbie did if you feel like it. So use: or Hope you dig the tweaks. :) --Nathan (Peteparker) (Earth-1218) (talk • • ) 21:23, 25 July 2008 (UTC) End Templates Yea, I can't figure out why it doesn't work outside of the template. I think it has to do with some of the auto-category stuff in the actual template itself. However, if you put it at the end inside the template, it seems to work right with no visual difference. Hope that'll work for ya. :) --Nathan (Peteparker) (Earth-1218) (talk • • ) 20:07, 16 August 2008 (UTC) Batman Storylines Hey, I just got back, finally, from my month of CIT-ing. You guys have been moving hard and fast for the past month, and I'm going to be sort of in chaos for awhile before I get myself back up to speed. I'm following up though on a request you had awhile ago for a complete list of Batman crossovers. It's been some time, so I don't know whether or not you guys took care of that yet, and I also don't know why in particular you need one, but I'd be happy to help you with that. These are the kinds of pet projects I do when I'm bored anyway. I'm glad to be back, I've missed you guys. :- Billy Arrowsmith, 21:05, 16 August 2008 (UTC) Sector So is Sector usually filled in with just a number, or sometimes with 'Sector 2814'? (I'm fixing the red link situation in the infobox. That's the break you're talking about, right? :) --Nathan (Peteparker) (Earth-1218) (talk • • ) 02:34, 19 August 2008 (UTC) :And do you get emails when a page you're watching is changed? I never do for Marvel or DC. :( :--Nathan (Peteparker) (Earth-1218) (talk • • ) 02:41, 19 August 2008 (UTC) ::I don't get emails, but I think I disabled that. I think it's just the number, like "|Sector = 2814", which would then categorize under "Category:Sector 2814". ::Roygbiv666 03:50, 19 August 2008 (UTC) :::Should be all fixed now. :) :::--Nathan (Peteparker) (Earth-1218) (talk • • ) 13:42, 19 August 2008 (UTC) ::::Hmmmmm. . . Earth-2 doesn't have a 'sector' listed, and I'm seeing sector listed for New Earth between Galaxy and Star System in the info box, and I'm also seeing New Earth categorized as Category:Sector 2814 at the bottom. What am I missing? What should I be seeing? ::::--Nathan (Peteparker) (Earth-1218) (talk • • ) 18:20, 19 August 2008 (UTC) Hmm, it looks fine now, but when I looked this morning, the whole page was the blue infobox thing. Computers are weird. :Roygbiv666 21:32, 19 August 2008 (UTC) :I'm just glad it's working right now. I was really worried I missing the sector part. :) :--Nathan (Peteparker) (Earth-1218) (talk • • ) 22:07, 19 August 2008 (UTC) Yeppers! It sure does still exist. I didn't know if it was a 'We're keeping it for sure' type thing, or a novelty that no one was really interested, so I didn't publish how it works all that well. Basically, you add the theme you want to Template:Theme, using the Batman and Green Lantern Themes as examples. Be sure to add the new theme at the top, just above |batman; brdr = , and also be sure to add both a border color (brdr) and background color (bkgd). Then, on the page you want to use it, just add a new block | Theme = with the name you choose. If you have any problems, I should be around. :) --Nathan (Peteparker) (Earth-1218) (talk • • ) 13:37, 20 August 2008 (UTC) That link doesn't really say much - let's assume that I'm stupid or you had to explain it to a four year old. Can you point me to an example? :Roygbiv666 21:08, 20 August 2008 (UTC) ::Sure, just add: :: | batman; brdr = #ffff99 :: | batman; bkgd = #333 ::(where 'batman' is the name of your theme in lower case, and the #ffff99 is the color of the border in HTML colors, and the #333 is the color of the background in HTML colors) to the second line in that Theme Template. ::Then, on any character's page, add: :: | Theme = batman ::where 'batman' is the name of your theme. Save the page, and it should have the colors you asked for! :) ::That's awesome news about DC, we need the Captain Americas to fight! Not to mention Spider-Man vs The Fly! :) ::--Nathan (Peteparker) (Earth-1218) (talk • • ) 04:47, 21 August 2008 (UTC) :::So, any of those themes should be added to the Template:Theme first, then it's invoked in the specific character page? Do we just keep adding themes to the template. I updated that page - have a look. I think it needs more explanation of your thought process so stupid people like me can understand what we need to do to use it. :::I'm not sure if DC now owns the Archie, or just has a sort of unlimited licence, but it's pretty cool. :::--Roygbiv666 13:03, 21 August 2008 (UTC) Archie Comics DC owns Archie Comics now? Score! My inexplicable, borderline paranoid habit of making small pages for alternate publishers has value after all. I feel so validated. Sorry, I just wanted to share my good feelings with someone and I saw your post on Nathan's wall. :- Billy Arrowsmith, 04:18, 21 August 2008 (UTC) :I'm not sure if DC now owns the Archie characters, or just has a sort of unlimited licence, but it's pretty cool. I don't think they own Archie, just the right to publish the superhero characters. :--Roygbiv666 13:04, 21 August 2008 (UTC) DC Nation I saw your stuff on the page, we probably should archive old DC Nations. It wouldn't be that difficult to obtain old ones, especially as they only hit their 100th weekly column earlier this year. Actually, I'm going on a comics run tomorrow and I'm sure I could figure it out in the store just by browsing some old issues. When it comes to actually scribing them down, again, I don't think that'd be much of a problem. I'd be happy to just type some up word for word, images would be a tad more complicated. Another question is, naming conventions? What happens if in the future there's a "DC Nation" comic? Even if it's just a magazine, or a one-shot type thing. :- Billy Arrowsmith, 03:31, 22 August 2008 (UTC) :Well, I was thinking of ... "borrowing" the actual digital pages, or at least linking to them. However, DC's page only lists back to #72 - no clue how to get older ones as they don't list the URLs and it's just those stupid "pagename is a number" convention. We could rename the article "DC Nation (Column)", how's that? The we'd have ... "DC Nation (Column) 123" or whatever. Let's think about it a bit (as I evidently didn't). ::Roygbiv666 04:01, 22 August 2008 (UTC) Themes/Column Template Hey Roy! You were missing a at the end of the infobox, and had a bit of leftover stuff from the contributors section. Those 's can get pretty intense, and it takes a lot of scrutiny, a little experience, and a little luck to get it right. I still have problems with them all the time. I added more information and some pictures to the cover page on the Theme Template, so hopefully, it'll be easier to understand. And yes, we can add as many themes to the template as we want. ;) --Nathan (Peteparker) (Earth-1218) (talk • • ) 14:29, 22 August 2008 (UTC) :That's great, thanks! :Roygbiv666 14:43, 22 August 2008 (UTC) Character Original Publisher Very much so. While we're at it, I think we should add an actual field for the first year a character appeared. I would love to see those things. And on a similar note, why don't we have an automatic section for Recommended Reading yet? Sorry, I digress, ADD, but yeah, I would definitely support that idea. :- Billy Arrowsmith, 01:07, 23 August 2008 (UTC) :At one point, there was talk of using the First appearance field to figure that out somehow. I asked Brian Kurtz and Peteparker - let's wait on them, and maybe it should go on the forums. ::Roygbiv666 01:43, 23 August 2008 (UTC) ::How many characters have a different publisher than DC? If it's less than 50, I'd say we could include a regular Category:Original Publisher, but if it gets to be about that much or more, I could see the benefit of having it in the Infobox. If everyone wants it and there are only a handful of characters, I can still work on it though. :) ::That's a really great idea about having the year show up for the comic in the 'first' and 'last' spots. I already grab the year for the 'Silver Age', etc categorization at the bottom, I might as well use it after the link in the first and last spots as well! ::--Nathan (Peteparker) (Earth-1218) (talk • • ) 03:47, 23 August 2008 (UTC) :::Wow, that was really easy to install. It's working, but won't work for the Vol 1 books until we move them to the 'Title Vol 1 Issue#' names. It won't show any year if 1, the year doesnt' exist on the comic page, or 2, the comic page doesnt' exist. :) :::--Nathan (Peteparker) (Earth-1218) (talk • • ) 04:14, 23 August 2008 (UTC) :Re. publishers, it's probably about a dozen, if that. Maybe just "Category:Publisher" would be enough. I assume you're talking about year of debut above... ::Roygbiv666 04:29, 23 August 2008 (UTC) I would think it would be more than a dozen. Account in all of the different companies DC has bought up over the years, not just recent ones like Wildstorm (and its imprints), Archie and Charlton, but even old school ones like Police Comics, where Plastic Man comes from. And the entire Marvel Family comes from Fawcett Comics. Even if it's not necessarily all worth having a category for, I think it's at least worth having a field on the character pages for. These things end up having significant consequences. I point as my example "L.A.W.", a team specifically entirely composed of ex-Charlton characters. :- Billy Arrowsmith, 04:39, 23 August 2008 (UTC) ::I'll put it in if you guys really think you'll use it. ::--Nathan (Peteparker) (Earth-1218) (talk • • ) 07:58, 23 August 2008 (UTC) :::Nathan, what's it like on the Marvel-side. I've heard of Mailbu, are there any other publishers that Marvel purchased/absorbed? ::::Roygbiv666 23:16, 25 August 2008 (UTC) As usual, I misread what you asked. There are probably a dozen publishers. If it's ten characters each, that's 120 characters. Maybe we should add that field... :Roygbiv666 23:07, 26 August 2008 (UTC) Cool If you see more of those let me know, I'm kinda flyin blind when it comes to subtle differences like that. There sure are a whole lot more Trades here than on Marvel. . . --Nathan (Peteparker) (Earth-1218) (talk • • ) 04:25, 24 August 2008 (UTC) In the column template? How would you like it changed, from Month, Year to Week, Month? Or are you just trying to change what automatically shows up? I don't know much about DC Columns. Where could I look at one or two? --Nathan (Peteparker) (Earth-1218) (talk • • ) 01:37, 25 August 2008 (UTC) :D'oh! Yeah, sorry, in the column template. The DC Nation column comes out every week, and they list the actual release date in the column - so, last Wednesday was DC Nation (Column) Vol 1 127 and was dated August 20, 2008. Theoretically, it could include the day, but that seems like overkill. Basically, if we list pubdate as "August" in the template, it shouldn't change date to June or whatever. Thanks for all your help on these stupid ideas of mine. :Roygbiv666 01:41, 25 August 2008 (UTC) ::Sorry I haven't gotten to this yet, It's still in my 'to do' tabs. ;) ::--Nathan (Peteparker) (Earth-1218) (talk • • ) 03:26, 2 September 2008 (UTC) Batman and Robin I'm glad to see somebody finally making this stuff. I think as it's already a team-up with so many characters involved, we might as well have it be a general page. Similar to the Batman Family page, which incorporates both the thrown-out Silver Age characters and the modern additions. Anyway, although there's been a lot of switch-ups in the past couple of years, Earth-One and Earth-Two really didn't have that much of a significantly different history. It's only since about '84 we've had any Robins other than Dick Grayson, but in the past 25 years alone we've seen Jason Todd come, go, and come again, Nightwing complicate things, Tim Drake and the Robin individual titles, plus the complications of Spoiler hitting up the green tights. While we're on the subject though, I've been meaning to drag this thing out for awhile. I was having trouble figuring out how to do unofficial teams without real names, like Green Lantern and Green Arrow or Superman and Batman. And I never really went anywhere with it, but I modded the Team Template and spiffed out a Team-Up Template. Think it would be any good for this kind of thing? Or excessive. :- Billy Arrowsmith, 03:22, 2 September 2008 (UTC) Hey. I don't think the template is excessive, but just because a team doesn't have a "team" name doesn't mean we can't use the existing "Team Template" (ex. just because it's "Batman and Robin" and not "The Dark Duo", it's still a team (damn, that sounds good "The Dark Duo")). I'd probably just keep using the Team Template. If you do go with your other one, just make sure to add it to the template page - that's one instance I think the Categories function sucks, finding stuff can be a real pain unless it's neatly in one place. You could have "Batman and Robin (Team)" with sub-sections, or links to "Batman and Robin (Team) (Earth-One)" , "Batman and Robin (Team) (Earth-Two)" , and"Batman and Robin (Team) (New Earth)" if you're really keen, I guess. :Roygbiv666 22:40, 2 September 2008 (UTC) ::Ooh, I do like 'Dark Duo'. Um, I can't edit that page, it's locked. I'll see if I can make at least a main 'B & R' page tonight when I get back, I've been collecting images on the side anyway for awhile for something like this. :::- Billy Arrowsmith, 11:17, 3 September 2008 (UTC) :::Which page are you trying to edit? I've got those magical sysop powers, maybe I can help. It's weird though - I see you created the Team-Up Template, and it's already in the template page, but I don't see your name on the history of the template page. ::::Roygbiv666 13:13, 3 September 2008 (UTC) DC Database:Templates. Huh, you're right, it is there. I would guess Brian already added that in awhile ago when I brought it up during one of his discussions with Rod12. Cool then, glad that's taken care of. :- Billy Arrowsmith, 19:46, 3 September 2008 (UTC) Concept It's no problem. FYI, there is a DC Database:Glossary Template, for terms that you could use for definitions as well, Glossary:A should give you an idea how this is set up. I'll take a look at the Concept template anyway. :) --Nathan (Peteparker) (Earth-1218) (talk • • ) 21:56, 4 September 2008 (UTC) :Yea, you were missing a , so I put one in. It might still be broken in the infobox, but you wouldn't be able to tell that until you tested it. :) :--Nathan (Peteparker) (Earth-1218) (talk • • ) 21:56, 4 September 2008 (UTC) PS, did I ever add the /Creators deal over here for characters on DC? I just noticed that you asked. . . --Nathan (Peteparker) (Earth-1218) (talk • • ) 22:02, 4 September 2008 (UTC) :Geez, I guess I didn't. I'll add it now. Looks like I dropped the 'Specialized publisher' conversation as well, somehow missing half of your replies on the 31st. I guess sometimes I need a poke with a stick to make sure I'm still awake. :) :We don't notice special publishers, since Marvel tends to come up with their own smaller pubs instead of buying other people's. But I have no problem installing an extra field that you guys would write in for Original Publisher or whatever. :--Nathan (Peteparker) (Earth-1218) (talk • • ) 22:10, 4 September 2008 (UTC) ::You're awesome, I do appreciate all your help with my endless requests. I think I should start posting them on the forums and bore others :-) ::Roygbiv666 22:12, 4 September 2008 (UTC) :::Ok, Publishers are in, add: | Publisher = to the Character template, and it'll come up directly below 'Creators'. (Don't forget to use ;'s (semi-colons) to separate the creators). I suggest that Publisher is inserted on the edit side right below Creators for consistency. :) :::--Nathan (Peteparker) (Earth-1218) (talk • • ) 22:39, 4 September 2008 (UTC) Hate to eavesdrop, but, Are we going to autocategorize the other publishers? Characters are usually purchased as such in bulk. This is great already though, it gets me so excited watching things like this happen. :- Billy Arrowsmith, 22:46, 4 September 2008 (UTC) ::We can do that, if you'd like. How should the category be named? ::--Nathan (Peteparker) (Earth-1218) (talk • • ) 22:59, 4 September 2008 (UTC) I would suggest that it appear in the character template as | Creators = | OriginalPublisher = then, it would create a link to a "Publisher Name" or "Category:Publisher Name Characters". The character is then categorized as "Category:Publisher Name Characters". So, the breadcrumbs might look like: Category:Characters > Category:Archie Comics Characters or Category:Characters > Category:Non-DC Characters > Category:Archie Comics Characters something like that. In terms of coding, it should be an optional field (as most characters will be "DC Characters" by default), so if it's blank, it doesn't show and doesn't do anything (like it doesn't create some stupid "Category:DC Characters"). If it's filled in like this: | OriginalPublisher = Archie Comics then it would appear as | Original Publisher = Archie Comics and it categorizes the characters as above. or something.... Roygbiv666 23:12, 4 September 2008 (UTC) ::I like that. 'Non-DC Characters' at first sounds a little bit weird, but I'm sure a well-worded MessageBox in the category would explain it nicely. I approve, sounds like a good time. :::- Billy Arrowsmith, 23:19, 4 September 2008 (UTC) :::Ok, everything is as above, with the exception of all the Category:Original Publisher Characters categories being put in Category:Non-DC Characters. To make up for this, I made the categorization so that if someone happened to put in 'DC' or 'dc' or 'Dc' or 'dC' or any variation of upper or lower cases of DC, it won't be categorized. Here's what I changed in the template, in case you guys want to see how it goes. :) :::--Nathan (Peteparker) (Earth-1218) (talk • • ) 02:40, 5 September 2008 (UTC) Awesome. Beautiful. Question though, would it still work if I had the link brackets around the publisher? I know at least for the creators, if you make a direct link to, say, Jack Kirby, it won't categorize it I don't think (whereas 'Jack Kirby' works just fine). But for the publisher, it doesn't do that nifty little auto-link thing. Likewise, could we get this installed in like, the Team Template, Organization Template, and Minor Character Templates? :- Billy Arrowsmith, 03:02, 5 September 2008 (UTC) :Ok, so I was looking at putting this into the others and tweaking it for the links stuff, and I came upon some choices to make. :1. Would you rather just put in the Publisher and have the template make it into a link as necessary, or would you rather make it into a link yourself and have the template take the link parts out to use the raw name of the publisher? :2. Are there sometimes multiple original publishers, or is there always only one? (Original kind of makes it one). :3. The Minor template doesn't have 'Creators' in it, and the entire idea of the Minor template is keeping it short and sweet, hence the lack of hair/eye/skin colors and height and weight. So we can put it in, but it's a bit backwards. Up to you guys. :So let me know about this stuff, and I'll finish it up. :--Nathan (Peteparker) (Earth-1218) (talk • • ) 05:56, 6 September 2008 (UTC) :1. I like less work, so I'd prefer the template make it a link. :2. I can't think of any multiple publishers .... Billy? :3. Hmmmm .... minor .... if the character graduates to "Major" character, we can add it then. KISS. ::Roygbiv666 14:43, 6 September 2008 (UTC) :::I want to add 'Creator' to the Minor Character template because there are all of these characters like, for example, the guys from DKSA. Those versions of characters were all created by Frank Miller. The Atom, The Question, Martian Manhunter, Lex Luthor, etc. But Category:Frank Miller/Creator is relatively empty for all of those guys. :::As for multiple original publishers? No, not really. The only controversy I could see would be the Charlton characters, who before being gained by DC were briefly licensed by Americomics. But I wouldn't really call it significant enough that we'd need to categorize them by that. ::::- Billy Arrowsmith (Talk), 17:14, 6 September 2008 (UTC) ::::I disagree with the thought that says FM "created" those characters. He didn't. He adapted, or reinvented, or reimagined, or reconstituted them, but they were created by others. Just as there would have been no Man of Steel (1986) without Siegel and Shuster, there would be no Dark Knight Returns if Miller had used only his own, unique creations. That's one of the reasons why I strongly believe that the Creator field needs more flexibility, in order to properly atribute "created by" and "reimagined by." The Paradox 01:09, 13 September 2008 (UTC) Fair enough. But I would say although maybe the pages themselves should be slightly clearer, I think those characters still belong in the Frank Miller/Creator category. Likewise though, would you say that Carmine Infantino had created the Elongated Man who was selling natural male enhancement products? It's complicated, but yeah, it could be clearer. :- Billy Arrowsmith (Talk), 01:54, 13 September 2008 (UTC) Comic/Event Template Hey, Roy, I remember awhile ago you had that really cool idea for a comic template that would list both the next issue in the title and the next issue for an event. I might've asked after this one recently, if I did, I apologize for I have a terrible memory. But did anything ever happen with that one? I ask because I'm trying to do more of the Annual Crossover events from the past that we don't have too much information on, and that would come really in handy for those big one-shot crossovers like Bloodlines and The Darkness Within. :- Billy Arrowsmith (Talk), 12:07, 12 September 2008 (UTC) :Nothing ever happened except people thought it was cool. It's on the forums somewhere, but they seem to be down at the moment. The idea basically was you say "This comic is part of event EVENTNAME" so it gets categorized as "Category:EVENTNAME Crossover" or something, you say "Previous issue of EVENTNAME" was whatever, it creates a link to EVENTNAME, and so on. If it's not part of an event, those fields obviously don't show up. Doesn't seem too hard but, people get busy and don't follow the Second Rule of the Universe (i.e. "If people would only do what I say without question, the world would be a better place."). ::Roygbiv666 16:34, 12 September 2008 (UTC) :::Like this: | Event = EVENTNAME | PrevEvent = PREVIOUS ISSUE (NAME AND NUMBER) OF EVENT | NextEvent = NEXT ISSUE (NAME AND NUMBER) OF EVENT :::Roygbiv666 16:43, 12 September 2008 (UTC) Okey dokey, gents, where would the previous and next issue numbers go on the page? Still in the infobox? Above or under the current previous/next? At the bottom of the page altogether? I'm game to play with things. — Nathan (Peteparker) (Earth-1218) (talk • • ) 03:10, 13 September 2008 (UTC) :I'd say underneath the regular previous and next issues. Would the same magic work with this where we don't have to actually link to the comic, and it'll just do that awesome cnst thing? Because that thing is awesome. ::- Billy Arrowsmith (Talk), 03:20, 13 September 2008 (UTC) ::I would actually say that the EVENT info should be placed together so it could appear like this: :: Part of Event: EVENTNAME (with a link to that event) :: Previous Event Issue Next Event Issue :: Previous Issue Next Issue :: Something like that, all in the Infobox - it only shows up if it's filled in. And yes, I'm all in favour of automagical linkages and categorization, but I'm not sure how you'd automate if the EVENT bounces from title to title - I think it would have to be manual, at least in identifying the issues. Should we run this by the forums, or at least the Wizard, Brian Kurtz? :::Roygbiv666 14:51, 13 September 2008 (UTC) :::I agree, it'd have to be a manual thing, where you put in the previous or next issues in the Event the same way you put in the previous and next issues manually. Definitely bring Big Bri in on this one. :::— Nathan (Peteparker) (Earth-1218) (talk • • ) 23:34, 13 September 2008 (UTC) ::I think this is a FANTASTIC idea! Personally, I opt for placing it in the infobox, beneath the regular Prev/Next issue section. Is there a way that the fields could be custom formatted to include say, those weird Superman triangle navigation numbers from the mid-1990s? See Superman Vol 2 79 for example. --Brian Kurtz 00:25, 14 September 2008 (UTC) :::I'd say above the regular Previous/Next because people are used to seeing them at the bottom. Your example is cool though, that could be how we do events, with little summaries of each issue under Recommended Readings. The Synopsis can be more thematic, rather than just issue to issue. ::::Roygbiv666 00:39, 14 September 2008 (UTC) :::::Wait, didn't I do something like that under Great Darkness Saga? Great minds and all... :::::Roygbiv666 00:41, 14 September 2008 (UTC) ::::::THAT'S What those triangles were about?!?!?!? Well when were they gonna tell the readers? Holy crap that explains a lot. (Back when I was reading Superman's death and aftermath books). ::::::I'm sure we could eventually set it up to work that way, or even set it up so that it could work both ways, with the triangle images or with plain links, but the triangles might take a bit more work. Were the triangle things the same format whenever they were used, or were there tons of different kinds of triangle thingys? ::::::— Nathan (Peteparker) (Earth-1218) (talk • • ) 05:57, 14 September 2008 (UTC) What if we just left the Prev/Next alone, but put a triangle symbol at the top left of the Infobox (opposite the question mark). We could get fancy and create little symbols for each event or something. :Roygbiv666 21:08, 14 September 2008 (UTC) ::A lot of them already have logos. For example, you can look at Image:Green Lantern Annual Vol 3 2.jpg, and you'll see that neat little blood-spattered "B" in the corner for Bloodlines. At least most of the other 90's events have them as well. I'll upload the icons themselves later, but right now my mouse is acting up, and I can't click and drag, which means I can't crop. :::- Billy Arrowsmith (Talk), 21:29, 14 September 2008 (UTC) :::Ok, you guys get the groups of icons together that you want to use, approximately a similar size as the Question mark so it'll be balanced, and when we have a couple of different ones of those, I'll try to make a test page, or anyone can if they feel like they wanna try. Once we get a good working one, we'll change over the major template. :) :::— Nathan (Peteparker) (Earth-1218) (talk • • ) 05:11, 15 September 2008 (UTC) Here's at least the two Bloodlines logos. They had a vertical one and a horizontal one, so I put both of them up: Image:Bloodlines Icon 01.jpg Image:Bloodlines Icon 02.jpg :- Billy Arrowsmith (Talk), 05:21, 15 September 2008 (UTC) Mars survey As one of the regular contributors around here, you may wish to weigh in on the renaming motion at Talk:Ma'aleca'andra. The Paradox 02:28, 13 September 2008 (UTC) Somewhat Confusing Article Mind taking a look at this one for me, Roy? It recently got uploaded, and it's... sort of a mess. I feel like somebody should question it, but... I wouldn't know where to start. This one: "Jeannie". It's supposed to be about the Joker's wife (who may or may not have existed), but it's out-of-universe and treats her like a definite as opposed to a variable in the Joker's life. :- Billy Arrowsmith (Talk), 00:07, 17 September 2008 (UTC) :No clue. I just moved it to a better name and tagged it. I don't have the Killing Joke handy to check it. :Roygbiv666 00:19, 17 September 2008 (UTC) Couple of things PG and ROBOTMAN? Besides the ewww factor, you got a reference for this? The only thing I can find is that she was called Karen Steele at one point (the website called it a "mistake"), but nothing showing any marital connection to Cliff Steele, annulled, separated or otherwise. Regarding this edit summary; no, the whole purpose of Zero Hour was mass carnage of the JSA and total disrespect for the Legion of Super-Heroes, who weren't merely killed, they were totally wiped from existence to make way for a bunch of Archie replacements. The Paradox 23:04, 19 September 2008 (UTC)